The VOYA Saga
Sep. 25th, 2016 03:16 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
soc_puppet[Content Warning: This long, and somewhat still developing saga, includes the following: Biphobia, misgendering, and conflation of gender identity with sexuality. In addition, many of the links include moving gifs.]
Wow, I wish I'd thought of this three days ago! Would've made reblogging much cleaner.
The following are image descriptions and transcripts for this post on![[tumblr.com profile]](https://www.tumblr.com/favicon.ico)
bisexualbooks.
For background, see the following posts: One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six
Image one: Gif of a car driving off a sports-style ramp and through a stack of seven exploding cars.
The the rest of the images are all screencaps of Facebook conversations, unless noted otherwise.
Image two:
Angie Manfredi: [first part is cut off] ...apologized - without admitting she had an ownership share in VOYA?
2. Who will claim ownership so they may apologize for these statements: https://twitter.com/lainasparetime/status/779076597454295040 which included calling people "obnoxious and vile"?
3. Why are you not addressing the deletions and blocking and locking of Twitter or anyone's comments?
4. What concrete guidelines will you put in place to ensure this won't happen again? Such as: training for new and current staff members on being sensitive to LGBTQIAA+ community, how to constructively handle feedback and criticsm, guidelines for reviewing content and issuing verdicts for "buy or not buy"? What are you doing to earn back our trust in you as a source?
VOYA Magazine: Angie, we were colleagues on Morris Award committee and you have written for me. Until this year, I would have thought we were friendly colleagues. We have apologized. It is up to you to forgive or not. RML
Image three:
Person one: [identity and first part of comment are cut off] accounts, it is clear to me that Voya (sic) needs a change in management, leadership and a significant rebooting of Voya's attention to it's (sic) mission and daily attention to work.
VOYA Magazine: We have had several discussions about this incident ad we all realize that we, starting with me, reacted and acted poorly. We are human, we are faulty. We love VOYA and I think, most of the time, we do a great job. We would like to continue to do so. RML
Whitney 'Thompson' Jenkins: In all honesty, regardless of any type of apology, I would have a hard time trusting this publication in the future. It is apparent that you have hired editors and leaders who do not stand for the principles that the publication claims to stand for and in our current social climate young patrons do not need more "obnoxious and vile" hate.
VOYA Magazine: I agree that we do not need the hate. I am sorry that you would lose faith in VOYA over this. Over time, I hope we can regain your trust. RML
Images four through six:
Hannah Moskowitz: "Fourth, I apologize for my absence on VOYA's Twitter and Facebook. I knew I needed to step back and think about what had happened, what I had done to cause it." Were you absent when you were blocking everyone in sight? Was that stepping back?
VOYA Magazine: that was not me, RoseMary. The decision was made, it was done, it will soon be changed back. We welcome conversation.
Hannah Moskowitz: How about the abusive comments insulting people who spoke out like in the screenshot Angie Manfredi posted? And the deletion of Facebook comments and your former "apologies?"
Sara Marie Waldecker: They made ya say it, huh? You didn't seem sorry when you insulted someone's little one.
VOYA Magazine: No, they did not and they did not know I posted this. I did not know the writers term meant in regards to a child. Yes, I should have looked it up.
Cindy Shutts: Who was responsible for blocking people on Twitter and the cruel comments on Facebook?
VOYA Magazine: We were hurt, angry, sad, and all of those things that you were. We reacted unprofessionally and we apologized. -RML
Cindy Shutts: I am a little confused. Where was the apology for the Facebook comments? I see one for Tristina and one for the review. I se one for steppin...[See More]
VOYA Magazine: Cindy Shutts I did not make the posts. The person who did realized her mistake and removed them.
Image seven:
Hannah Moskowitz: emails you didn't answer, you mean?
Andria Amaral: STILL not addressing the mass-blocking on Twitter.
VOYA Magazine: Here is response, ladies. From Lisa. I shut down activity on our social media after many hours of reading and rereading comments. At a certain point, the comments became repetitive and no longer unique viewpoints. They became unhelpful. I felt it was time to take a break, reflect, and allow for discussions without further comments rehashing the same points over and over. I will not apology (sic) for that. The sites we turned off for a while belong to our business. They are not an endless forum for people to continually rehash their opinions. We read and reread comments until we felt we had gotten the messages people were sending us. Blocking people was something that I did before finding the "protect my tweets" option. I'm not a Twitter user, so it took me a while. Nope, not a Twitter user. A Twitter reader. I've already apologized several times for the problems I caused to those who were hurt. I meant it, I said it. I also corrected some things that were said about VOYA that are not true. That is important because the fact that someone says something does not make it true. The sites are back up and open.
Image eight:
Person one [presumably Hannah Moskowitz; beginning is cut off] defenselessness right now. Stop defending yourself and simply listen. Instead of using your words, use the like button to show that you are engaged and listening, rather than hiding.
VOYA Magazine: Hannah Moskowitz is sock puppet queer terminology?
Heidi Schulz: VOYA Magazine Please, stop replying for a moment and Google.
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: So this is how you advocate for queer teens. I think you can say goodbye to that "respected" thing.
Hannah Moskowitz: No, but it's pretty common internet terminology that anyone using social media for a business should be aware of. Is it possible that you should REALLY not be using social media for your business?
VOYA Magazine: I don't use social media. Unless specifically asked questions.
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: Why are you continuing to ask people to do [cut off]
Image nine: Gif of pixelated text asking the question: "Is this okay?" There are two answer options, Yes and No, and a blinking arrow next to No.
Images ten and eleven:
Hannah Moskowitz: I look forward to it.
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: When a conversation partly starts from talking about queer folk, it's probably not a good idea to gender people carelessly like that. Not e... [See More]
Hannah Moskowitz: hoookay, Lisa. Welcome aboard. Here's some thoughts--when you're talking to a bunch of queer people, don't call us "ladies." Big mistak... [See More]
Heather R Johnson: Item one, I am agender, which means not a lady. My pronouns may be she/her or they/them, but that still does not mean I fall under the heading of 'lady'.
Item two, deleting posts/comments because they were no longer 'helpful' was a very poor way to handle it. Part of the reason for the repitition, from my vantage point anyway, is that were receiving no indicaiton whatsoever that we were being heard. Any comments received were knee-jerk and/or missed the point. I don't recall a single instance of saying something along the lines of "we hear what you were saying and need a chance to study and reflect." Something that tells us we are not speaking into a void.
Much like the new post that addresses me specifically - I appreciate it being made; for it being stated that we are being heard and you're working on it. I look forward to seeing what policy changes/movements are put into place.
And additionally, to the second point, I find my own work place that it is very handy to keep hold of things like all those comments that were deleted to refer back to later to ensure memories are accurate...can't do that when the posts are all gone!
VOYA Magazine: I use ladies because that is how I address people who have names indicative of being female. I will continue to do that because that is a polite address. If you prefer something else, let me know and I will gladly address you in that way. You speak as though you represent every person who shares your sexuality, and you don't. If you personally have an address you prefer, let me know.
Hannah Moskowitz: oh. my. effing. god. You will continue to do that because it is a polite address, even after being explicitly told not to? Because of how our names sound?
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: No, you did not bring up sexuality. You just misgendered people.
Heidi Shulz: This keeps getting stranger and stranger. I am absolutely flabbergasted at the bungling here, from the defensive aggression, to the blocking and locking, to the suspicious defender (sock puppet?) account.
Someone needs to take away the keys and stop whomever is running your social media accounts from continuing to compound the damage to your organization. Do you have a friend you can call?
VOYA Magazine: Keeping it real. Telling you the answers you are asking for.
Image twelve:
VOYA Magazine: I edit reviews for a magazine. A very useful and respected one. I don't need to know the lingo used for Twitter unless I come across it in a review, in which case, I look it up.
Image thirteen:
Tess Sharpe: Might I advise you to stop discussing this in house--because you clearly have some major blind spots in-house regarding this topic, and I'm sure, many other marginaliazed identities--and employ a LGBTQIA sensitivity trainer? Because your staff clearly n... [See More]
Hannah Moskowitz: Tess Sharpe YES QUEEN
VOYA Magazine: Tess Sharpe, please recommend a LGBTQIA sensitivity trainer. Education is definitely on my list of things to do to make me a better listener, and a more critical reader with different audiences in mind. THe things we learn can be incorporated into our guidelines for our reviewers and writesr. And this editor. RML
Hannah Moskowitz: It is NOT Tess's job to find someone to do your work for you. If you want her labor, pay her.
Image fourteen:
Hannah Moskowitz: "If you guys hate the magazine so much, why are you here?" Because a biphobic review affected a bisexual author's ability to get her book in the hands of readers and insulted the LGBTQ community AND all of its allies. Because a queer woman who wrote in to express well thought-out, peaceful concerns got a snarky response back that attacked her parenting skills that was then posted on VOYA's website for the public to see without her permission. Because another librarian who wrote in was accused of "having a problem with bisexuals" because he stood up against biphobia. Because through all of these "apologies" VOYA has continued to accuse us of timing our "attacks," of "demanding" things from them, of strategically keeping quiet, and of being VILE PEOPLE. And you know where we've been? We've been here. Waiting for an apology. Watching this unfold. Just being queer authors trying to go about our lives and have our books find queer teenagers. Where have you been?
Image fifteen:
Meredith Snepp: Please tell me they didn't delete Hannah's comments.
Hebah Uddin: Where are Hannah's comments.
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: Are you deleting comments again, Voya?
Bobby Mathews: LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime it sure looks like it. JFC.
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: You either deleted her comments, Voya, or you blocked her from the page. Why just her?
Carly Duey: They blocked her.
Bobby Mathews: you can dislike Hannah's posts, Lisa, but deleting/blocking is pretty low. she's an important voice in YA -- and specifically in LGBTQIAP spaces -- you need to hear her criticism. this is not narrative you can control.
Image sixteen:
VOYA Magazine: This morning there have been many constructive comments and questions and we are grateful for those. In response to Heather Johnson, we do want to address them all. But it t is very difficult to address them all, to address so many comments and questions immediately, on the fly, and simultaneously, particularly when they range from very specific "factual" issues to broad attitiudinal issues, and subsequent comments elucidate previous ones. It will take us time to sort and digest them all and discuss them to see how can improve our publication. I ams ure we will reach out to many of you to clarify and help us address the issues and concerns. This is not something that can be done in an hour or a day or a week. If it is to be done properly, it will take time. Edward Kurdyla, publisher.
Image seventeen:
I am still awake and just reading glossary words and learning what is okay to use and what is not. It is embarrassing how out of date I am. I thought that was a good place to begin since not understanding what "genderqueer" meant led me to make a stupid comment. This is what I am reading: http://www.glaad.org/sites/default/files/GLAAD%20MRG_9th.pdf
Yes, Lisa has burned bridges that will no doubt, ever be repaired.
I will share the resources with the publisher and do my best to make VOYA an LGBT+ friendlier publication.
Thank you for continuing the conversation.
Image eighteen: Gif from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Spike drapes himself over a cross; Buffy looks on with tears on her face and shakes her head very slightly as Spike's body starts to smoke.
And that's it! Phew, my eyes and fingers hurt from transcribing all of that. Time for a break, I think.
Wow, I wish I'd thought of this three days ago! Would've made reblogging much cleaner.
The following are image descriptions and transcripts for this post on
For background, see the following posts: One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six
Image one: Gif of a car driving off a sports-style ramp and through a stack of seven exploding cars.
The the rest of the images are all screencaps of Facebook conversations, unless noted otherwise.
Image two:
Angie Manfredi: [first part is cut off] ...apologized - without admitting she had an ownership share in VOYA?
2. Who will claim ownership so they may apologize for these statements: https://twitter.com/lainasparetime/status/779076597454295040 which included calling people "obnoxious and vile"?
3. Why are you not addressing the deletions and blocking and locking of Twitter or anyone's comments?
4. What concrete guidelines will you put in place to ensure this won't happen again? Such as: training for new and current staff members on being sensitive to LGBTQIAA+ community, how to constructively handle feedback and criticsm, guidelines for reviewing content and issuing verdicts for "buy or not buy"? What are you doing to earn back our trust in you as a source?
VOYA Magazine: Angie, we were colleagues on Morris Award committee and you have written for me. Until this year, I would have thought we were friendly colleagues. We have apologized. It is up to you to forgive or not. RML
Image three:
Person one: [identity and first part of comment are cut off] accounts, it is clear to me that Voya (sic) needs a change in management, leadership and a significant rebooting of Voya's attention to it's (sic) mission and daily attention to work.
VOYA Magazine: We have had several discussions about this incident ad we all realize that we, starting with me, reacted and acted poorly. We are human, we are faulty. We love VOYA and I think, most of the time, we do a great job. We would like to continue to do so. RML
Whitney 'Thompson' Jenkins: In all honesty, regardless of any type of apology, I would have a hard time trusting this publication in the future. It is apparent that you have hired editors and leaders who do not stand for the principles that the publication claims to stand for and in our current social climate young patrons do not need more "obnoxious and vile" hate.
VOYA Magazine: I agree that we do not need the hate. I am sorry that you would lose faith in VOYA over this. Over time, I hope we can regain your trust. RML
Images four through six:
Hannah Moskowitz: "Fourth, I apologize for my absence on VOYA's Twitter and Facebook. I knew I needed to step back and think about what had happened, what I had done to cause it." Were you absent when you were blocking everyone in sight? Was that stepping back?
VOYA Magazine: that was not me, RoseMary. The decision was made, it was done, it will soon be changed back. We welcome conversation.
Hannah Moskowitz: How about the abusive comments insulting people who spoke out like in the screenshot Angie Manfredi posted? And the deletion of Facebook comments and your former "apologies?"
Sara Marie Waldecker: They made ya say it, huh? You didn't seem sorry when you insulted someone's little one.
VOYA Magazine: No, they did not and they did not know I posted this. I did not know the writers term meant in regards to a child. Yes, I should have looked it up.
Cindy Shutts: Who was responsible for blocking people on Twitter and the cruel comments on Facebook?
VOYA Magazine: We were hurt, angry, sad, and all of those things that you were. We reacted unprofessionally and we apologized. -RML
Cindy Shutts: I am a little confused. Where was the apology for the Facebook comments? I see one for Tristina and one for the review. I se one for steppin...[See More]
VOYA Magazine: Cindy Shutts I did not make the posts. The person who did realized her mistake and removed them.
Image seven:
Hannah Moskowitz: emails you didn't answer, you mean?
Andria Amaral: STILL not addressing the mass-blocking on Twitter.
VOYA Magazine: Here is response, ladies. From Lisa. I shut down activity on our social media after many hours of reading and rereading comments. At a certain point, the comments became repetitive and no longer unique viewpoints. They became unhelpful. I felt it was time to take a break, reflect, and allow for discussions without further comments rehashing the same points over and over. I will not apology (sic) for that. The sites we turned off for a while belong to our business. They are not an endless forum for people to continually rehash their opinions. We read and reread comments until we felt we had gotten the messages people were sending us. Blocking people was something that I did before finding the "protect my tweets" option. I'm not a Twitter user, so it took me a while. Nope, not a Twitter user. A Twitter reader. I've already apologized several times for the problems I caused to those who were hurt. I meant it, I said it. I also corrected some things that were said about VOYA that are not true. That is important because the fact that someone says something does not make it true. The sites are back up and open.
Image eight:
Person one [presumably Hannah Moskowitz; beginning is cut off] defenselessness right now. Stop defending yourself and simply listen. Instead of using your words, use the like button to show that you are engaged and listening, rather than hiding.
VOYA Magazine: Hannah Moskowitz is sock puppet queer terminology?
Heidi Schulz: VOYA Magazine Please, stop replying for a moment and Google.
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: So this is how you advocate for queer teens. I think you can say goodbye to that "respected" thing.
Hannah Moskowitz: No, but it's pretty common internet terminology that anyone using social media for a business should be aware of. Is it possible that you should REALLY not be using social media for your business?
VOYA Magazine: I don't use social media. Unless specifically asked questions.
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: Why are you continuing to ask people to do [cut off]
Image nine: Gif of pixelated text asking the question: "Is this okay?" There are two answer options, Yes and No, and a blinking arrow next to No.
Images ten and eleven:
Hannah Moskowitz: I look forward to it.
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: When a conversation partly starts from talking about queer folk, it's probably not a good idea to gender people carelessly like that. Not e... [See More]
Hannah Moskowitz: hoookay, Lisa. Welcome aboard. Here's some thoughts--when you're talking to a bunch of queer people, don't call us "ladies." Big mistak... [See More]
Heather R Johnson: Item one, I am agender, which means not a lady. My pronouns may be she/her or they/them, but that still does not mean I fall under the heading of 'lady'.
Item two, deleting posts/comments because they were no longer 'helpful' was a very poor way to handle it. Part of the reason for the repitition, from my vantage point anyway, is that were receiving no indicaiton whatsoever that we were being heard. Any comments received were knee-jerk and/or missed the point. I don't recall a single instance of saying something along the lines of "we hear what you were saying and need a chance to study and reflect." Something that tells us we are not speaking into a void.
Much like the new post that addresses me specifically - I appreciate it being made; for it being stated that we are being heard and you're working on it. I look forward to seeing what policy changes/movements are put into place.
And additionally, to the second point, I find my own work place that it is very handy to keep hold of things like all those comments that were deleted to refer back to later to ensure memories are accurate...can't do that when the posts are all gone!
VOYA Magazine: I use ladies because that is how I address people who have names indicative of being female. I will continue to do that because that is a polite address. If you prefer something else, let me know and I will gladly address you in that way. You speak as though you represent every person who shares your sexuality, and you don't. If you personally have an address you prefer, let me know.
Hannah Moskowitz: oh. my. effing. god. You will continue to do that because it is a polite address, even after being explicitly told not to? Because of how our names sound?
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: No, you did not bring up sexuality. You just misgendered people.
Heidi Shulz: This keeps getting stranger and stranger. I am absolutely flabbergasted at the bungling here, from the defensive aggression, to the blocking and locking, to the suspicious defender (sock puppet?) account.
Someone needs to take away the keys and stop whomever is running your social media accounts from continuing to compound the damage to your organization. Do you have a friend you can call?
VOYA Magazine: Keeping it real. Telling you the answers you are asking for.
Image twelve:
VOYA Magazine: I edit reviews for a magazine. A very useful and respected one. I don't need to know the lingo used for Twitter unless I come across it in a review, in which case, I look it up.
Image thirteen:
Tess Sharpe: Might I advise you to stop discussing this in house--because you clearly have some major blind spots in-house regarding this topic, and I'm sure, many other marginaliazed identities--and employ a LGBTQIA sensitivity trainer? Because your staff clearly n... [See More]
Hannah Moskowitz: Tess Sharpe YES QUEEN
VOYA Magazine: Tess Sharpe, please recommend a LGBTQIA sensitivity trainer. Education is definitely on my list of things to do to make me a better listener, and a more critical reader with different audiences in mind. THe things we learn can be incorporated into our guidelines for our reviewers and writesr. And this editor. RML
Hannah Moskowitz: It is NOT Tess's job to find someone to do your work for you. If you want her labor, pay her.
Image fourteen:
Hannah Moskowitz: "If you guys hate the magazine so much, why are you here?" Because a biphobic review affected a bisexual author's ability to get her book in the hands of readers and insulted the LGBTQ community AND all of its allies. Because a queer woman who wrote in to express well thought-out, peaceful concerns got a snarky response back that attacked her parenting skills that was then posted on VOYA's website for the public to see without her permission. Because another librarian who wrote in was accused of "having a problem with bisexuals" because he stood up against biphobia. Because through all of these "apologies" VOYA has continued to accuse us of timing our "attacks," of "demanding" things from them, of strategically keeping quiet, and of being VILE PEOPLE. And you know where we've been? We've been here. Waiting for an apology. Watching this unfold. Just being queer authors trying to go about our lives and have our books find queer teenagers. Where have you been?
Image fifteen:
Meredith Snepp: Please tell me they didn't delete Hannah's comments.
Hebah Uddin: Where are Hannah's comments.
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: Are you deleting comments again, Voya?
Bobby Mathews: LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime it sure looks like it. JFC.
LainaHas TooMuch SpareTime: You either deleted her comments, Voya, or you blocked her from the page. Why just her?
Carly Duey: They blocked her.
Bobby Mathews: you can dislike Hannah's posts, Lisa, but deleting/blocking is pretty low. she's an important voice in YA -- and specifically in LGBTQIAP spaces -- you need to hear her criticism. this is not narrative you can control.
Image sixteen:
VOYA Magazine: This morning there have been many constructive comments and questions and we are grateful for those. In response to Heather Johnson, we do want to address them all. But it t is very difficult to address them all, to address so many comments and questions immediately, on the fly, and simultaneously, particularly when they range from very specific "factual" issues to broad attitiudinal issues, and subsequent comments elucidate previous ones. It will take us time to sort and digest them all and discuss them to see how can improve our publication. I ams ure we will reach out to many of you to clarify and help us address the issues and concerns. This is not something that can be done in an hour or a day or a week. If it is to be done properly, it will take time. Edward Kurdyla, publisher.
Image seventeen:
I am still awake and just reading glossary words and learning what is okay to use and what is not. It is embarrassing how out of date I am. I thought that was a good place to begin since not understanding what "genderqueer" meant led me to make a stupid comment. This is what I am reading: http://www.glaad.org/sites/default/files/GLAAD%20MRG_9th.pdf
Yes, Lisa has burned bridges that will no doubt, ever be repaired.
I will share the resources with the publisher and do my best to make VOYA an LGBT+ friendlier publication.
Thank you for continuing the conversation.
Image eighteen: Gif from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Spike drapes himself over a cross; Buffy looks on with tears on her face and shakes her head very slightly as Spike's body starts to smoke.
And that's it! Phew, my eyes and fingers hurt from transcribing all of that. Time for a break, I think.
