In which socchan gripes about church
Sep. 24th, 2007 08:12 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
soc_puppetSo! Let's talk religion ¦Db [Translation: Here's your cue to ignore, people not interested in this!]
I think I kind of hate my church.
See, here's the thing. I already didn't like the priest we got recently. (And by recently I mean a few years ago. He gives the local Spanish mass.) What I think it is, is how his sermons always start with a joke that doesn't tie very well into the rest of the lecture. Also, he's not the most dynamic reader I've ever heard. And I think he might be a little conservative for my tastes too. (He's. Probably decently liberal, as far as Catholic priests go, but. That's still probably in the median range and I prefer a little more wiggle-room.) Anyway, long story short, his personality/presence just kinda grates on me. Unfortunately, everyone else loves having him around, so I've only mentioned this once to any of my family.
And even that I could kinda live with. But then came the tornado that wiped out our old building, and now we're stuck in the parish hall. And in the old building, I could at least be distracted by all the pretty stained glass windows and stuff. In the parish hall? Not so much, no. I mean, I grew up with people emphasizing the idea that a church was a community and where we met was just a building, but I'm finding it hard to deny that the place we're meeting almost lacks something. And we're all jammed together, even if the seats are rather comfy, and the acoustics are terrible and I just. Don't really enjoy going to church at all anymore.
These days it also seems more like a family chore. It's this other thing, see; my Dad's kind-of a born-again Catholic? Except I didn't find out until about six months ago or so. My mom explained to me that Dad stopped going to church for about five years when he was my age, and that Grandpa thought the world was ending when Dad finally started going again. (Mom has to remind him of these things from time to time. Like how she has to remind him that when he was twenty, he was spending as much time away from his parents as possible, and maybe Socchan is feeling sorta similar and that's why she's not spending as much time with us these days, Dear.)
Anyway, he's really enthusiastic about religion. Not to the point of being a Flanders clone or anything, but he is pretty obviously faithful. So I've got major pressure from him to go to church with the rest of the family, even though I don't want to because I dislike our priest and dislike our building and can't sit on my own. Church shouldn't be a chore, yanno? And I can't tell him this, because I don't think he'd get it. And that would just end with me being angry at him for not seeing things from my point of view and him being angry at me for not coming around to his way of thinking and him winning the argument anyway.
Between all of these factors, I just don't feel like going to church these days. I might go if I didn't have to sit with my family all the time, or even knew that I had the freedom to sit elsewhere. I might go when we get the new building set up, though that's of slightly lesser importance; crochet might work just as well. And I might go if we get a new priest, but that ain't happening.
Long story short, I miss when I enjoyed going to church.
Tangent - Talking about faith
I hate to admit it, but I actually get pretty peeved whenever people go on and on about faith. A lot of times, it comes off to me like preaching or hitting people upside the head with religion. "Your life sucks! Come join ourcult church 8Db"
At the same time, I'm almost annoyed at how our culture has downplayed faith. It's like we traded believing in things for the good of ourselves and the world around us for following mind-numbing traditions out of obligation. Where's the health? Where's the healing? Where's the love for all living things?
I kind of want an over-the-top, idealized, international religion now. Kinda like Esperanto, except with faith and not language. Is it asking too much to want a universal spirituality?
Also, and I would like to make a point of saying this, I have huge respect for atheists. And it's not because I think religious/spiritual people are depending on their faith like a crutch and can't get around without it, and it's not because I think people without faith are somehow less whole either. It's just... fuck, I don't have a good word for this. It's like, religious/faithful people have built an extra room on their house, and they go into that room to get a better sense at what's out there. And maybe they can see better, and maybe they can't, but it's still a hell of a lot of work to maintain. And atheists, they decided they can see the world just fine from where they are, thank-you-very-much, you can go build your house additions without us. And I just think that's cool, is all.
...Or maybe it's more like wearing underwear, in that not everyone believes in it, and I gotta admire the people who don't for the way they can go without. Or maybe it's like comparing people who breathe air to people who don't breathe/live on a world without an atmosphere; they both can do something the other can't, and neither one can go underwater, but they both want to find out more about what's out there.
Or maybe I'm just over-thinking it all and should stop trying to come up with metaphors for the whole thing.
End tangent.
I want to go out there and taste all the different flavors of spirituality, and take with me what I like and leave behind what I don't. Does that make me a bad person? No. Does it make me a bad Catholic? Probably. Maybe I should just go Unitarian.
Now, where was I? Oh yeah, pertinent information.
Why the hell I brought this up all of a sudden:
A-ahahahaha. Haha. Ha. S-see. The Catholic church has this thing. (Using the collective church in this case.) It's a "Use your talents for the good of the church!" thing. And I used to think about it a lot - you know, when I was really little and just starting Wednesday night religious educationsince that's what Catholics do with their kids when they can't send them to private religious schools - and how I couldn't really think of anything I could or wanted to do. And the only thing I could come up with was writing and/or drawing pro-church stuff. Except I didn't like the idea for some reason. These days because I'd feel like it was propaganda and attempting to force a religion on people who didn't want it, but back then I probably either didn't have any ideas for it, or thought it was boring.
Well, lately, in the aftermath of the tornado and whatnot, we've started to try and raise money to build a new church (building). You know, the kind of building with, say, working air conditioning and reasonably good ventilation (so the people with allergies - like my mom - don't have to leave the room whenever someone lights up the incense) and, I don't know, a good sound system and/or acoustics so we don't have to strain our ears to hear the priest? That sort of thing. And Mom and Dad had/got to get up in front of the congregation and give a speech on that - and unity in the church and stuff. And Mom mentioned that hey, maybe I wanted to help out with volunteer stuff with the church sometime? Like maybe the blood drive.
This is the point where I looked ruefully at the insides of my arms; no blood donation until January, by order of the doctor, s-sigh. Mom instantly explains that she knew I couldn't donate just now, but she meant maybe in other ways. I honestly had no idea what she meant, but she brought up the "contribute your talents to the church" thing again, and had listed several examples in her speech, which she had just read to me. So I basically replied with, "Well, maybe I could draw a comic for the church bulletin." Mom replies with a, "Yeah, that's a good idea! A nice one-panel thing..."
We didn't talk about it any more, but that night I was hit hard upside the head with a main character and a few gag and storyline ideas. Thinking about it and working with it is the most productive and the most spiritual I've felt in a long time. So, is this what being religious is to me? Skipping church and drawing a comic strip about a young priest who once wanted to be a middle school teacher?
If it is, I probably have a lot more research to do.
And, to summarize the third part, it's me giving a huge, unnecessary lead-up to the idea that maybe I practice my faith by writing dorky comics about it. They would so not be preachy at all. Or okay, maybe they would, but they would be my kind of preachy, and that makes it okayeven though it's not okay for anyone else to preach at me.
Man, I have so got to re-read my Paulo Coelho collection sometime soon. It has been far too long, and the N in my INFJ is slipping away.
I think I kind of hate my church.
See, here's the thing. I already didn't like the priest we got recently. (And by recently I mean a few years ago. He gives the local Spanish mass.) What I think it is, is how his sermons always start with a joke that doesn't tie very well into the rest of the lecture. Also, he's not the most dynamic reader I've ever heard. And I think he might be a little conservative for my tastes too. (He's. Probably decently liberal, as far as Catholic priests go, but. That's still probably in the median range and I prefer a little more wiggle-room.) Anyway, long story short, his personality/presence just kinda grates on me. Unfortunately, everyone else loves having him around, so I've only mentioned this once to any of my family.
And even that I could kinda live with. But then came the tornado that wiped out our old building, and now we're stuck in the parish hall. And in the old building, I could at least be distracted by all the pretty stained glass windows and stuff. In the parish hall? Not so much, no. I mean, I grew up with people emphasizing the idea that a church was a community and where we met was just a building, but I'm finding it hard to deny that the place we're meeting almost lacks something. And we're all jammed together, even if the seats are rather comfy, and the acoustics are terrible and I just. Don't really enjoy going to church at all anymore.
These days it also seems more like a family chore. It's this other thing, see; my Dad's kind-of a born-again Catholic? Except I didn't find out until about six months ago or so. My mom explained to me that Dad stopped going to church for about five years when he was my age, and that Grandpa thought the world was ending when Dad finally started going again. (Mom has to remind him of these things from time to time. Like how she has to remind him that when he was twenty, he was spending as much time away from his parents as possible, and maybe Socchan is feeling sorta similar and that's why she's not spending as much time with us these days, Dear.)
Anyway, he's really enthusiastic about religion. Not to the point of being a Flanders clone or anything, but he is pretty obviously faithful. So I've got major pressure from him to go to church with the rest of the family, even though I don't want to because I dislike our priest and dislike our building and can't sit on my own. Church shouldn't be a chore, yanno? And I can't tell him this, because I don't think he'd get it. And that would just end with me being angry at him for not seeing things from my point of view and him being angry at me for not coming around to his way of thinking and him winning the argument anyway.
Between all of these factors, I just don't feel like going to church these days. I might go if I didn't have to sit with my family all the time, or even knew that I had the freedom to sit elsewhere. I might go when we get the new building set up, though that's of slightly lesser importance; crochet might work just as well. And I might go if we get a new priest, but that ain't happening.
Long story short, I miss when I enjoyed going to church.
Tangent - Talking about faith
I hate to admit it, but I actually get pretty peeved whenever people go on and on about faith. A lot of times, it comes off to me like preaching or hitting people upside the head with religion. "Your life sucks! Come join our
At the same time, I'm almost annoyed at how our culture has downplayed faith. It's like we traded believing in things for the good of ourselves and the world around us for following mind-numbing traditions out of obligation. Where's the health? Where's the healing? Where's the love for all living things?
I kind of want an over-the-top, idealized, international religion now. Kinda like Esperanto, except with faith and not language. Is it asking too much to want a universal spirituality?
Also, and I would like to make a point of saying this, I have huge respect for atheists. And it's not because I think religious/spiritual people are depending on their faith like a crutch and can't get around without it, and it's not because I think people without faith are somehow less whole either. It's just... fuck, I don't have a good word for this. It's like, religious/faithful people have built an extra room on their house, and they go into that room to get a better sense at what's out there. And maybe they can see better, and maybe they can't, but it's still a hell of a lot of work to maintain. And atheists, they decided they can see the world just fine from where they are, thank-you-very-much, you can go build your house additions without us. And I just think that's cool, is all.
...Or maybe it's more like wearing underwear, in that not everyone believes in it, and I gotta admire the people who don't for the way they can go without. Or maybe it's like comparing people who breathe air to people who don't breathe/live on a world without an atmosphere; they both can do something the other can't, and neither one can go underwater, but they both want to find out more about what's out there.
Or maybe I'm just over-thinking it all and should stop trying to come up with metaphors for the whole thing.
End tangent.
I want to go out there and taste all the different flavors of spirituality, and take with me what I like and leave behind what I don't. Does that make me a bad person? No. Does it make me a bad Catholic? Probably. Maybe I should just go Unitarian.
Now, where was I? Oh yeah, pertinent information.
Why the hell I brought this up all of a sudden:
A-ahahahaha. Haha. Ha. S-see. The Catholic church has this thing. (Using the collective church in this case.) It's a "Use your talents for the good of the church!" thing. And I used to think about it a lot - you know, when I was really little and just starting Wednesday night religious education
Well, lately, in the aftermath of the tornado and whatnot, we've started to try and raise money to build a new church (building). You know, the kind of building with, say, working air conditioning and reasonably good ventilation (so the people with allergies - like my mom - don't have to leave the room whenever someone lights up the incense) and, I don't know, a good sound system and/or acoustics so we don't have to strain our ears to hear the priest? That sort of thing. And Mom and Dad had/got to get up in front of the congregation and give a speech on that - and unity in the church and stuff. And Mom mentioned that hey, maybe I wanted to help out with volunteer stuff with the church sometime? Like maybe the blood drive.
This is the point where I looked ruefully at the insides of my arms; no blood donation until January, by order of the doctor, s-sigh. Mom instantly explains that she knew I couldn't donate just now, but she meant maybe in other ways. I honestly had no idea what she meant, but she brought up the "contribute your talents to the church" thing again, and had listed several examples in her speech, which she had just read to me. So I basically replied with, "Well, maybe I could draw a comic for the church bulletin." Mom replies with a, "Yeah, that's a good idea! A nice one-panel thing..."
We didn't talk about it any more, but that night I was hit hard upside the head with a main character and a few gag and storyline ideas. Thinking about it and working with it is the most productive and the most spiritual I've felt in a long time. So, is this what being religious is to me? Skipping church and drawing a comic strip about a young priest who once wanted to be a middle school teacher?
If it is, I probably have a lot more research to do.
And, to summarize the third part, it's me giving a huge, unnecessary lead-up to the idea that maybe I practice my faith by writing dorky comics about it. They would so not be preachy at all. Or okay, maybe they would, but they would be my kind of preachy, and that makes it okay
Man, I have so got to re-read my Paulo Coelho collection sometime soon. It has been far too long, and the N in my INFJ is slipping away.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 02:03 am (UTC)Oh, things are better with my parents, though. They go to church several times by week, are involved with catechism and stuff, but they don't force me to go to church and they understood that I don't feel the need to go to church every sunday morning(They forced me a bit when I was 14 years younger and I thought it sucks, it mades me skip the end of the cartoons.Xp XD).
But well, I still thinks you have understandable reasons to skipp the office and that it's a pity that your father couldn't trully understood that.(sigh)
For the atheist... Well, it depends for me. As long they're intelligent, open-minded, tolerant and don't try to force you to swallow their beliefs, I respect atheist without problem.
Hey, I've even the kind of weirdo who love atheist author without feelings shame.
I've a problem with the narrow-minded morons who believe that religion is the EVILONEONEONE, that believers are necessary morons, fanatics or bigot and couldn't have a intelligente debate with someone desagreeing with them tos ave their life.
In fact... I put atheist and believer on the same bag, as long they're sane, it's fine, as long they're fanatics with black and white view of the world, I couldn't stand them for long.
Anyway, I fine that it's possible for people to find happyness and have morality without having a religion.
An atheist with love should bring more joy to God that a believer with hate, that's my opinion. ^__^
For the universal religion utopia... I dunno, I still prefer to see several religions in a world that only one, as long everyone respect each other and are open to different beliefs that his owns, variety and difference are the spice of life after all, and despite the fact there is only one love, it could have so many different forms.
I suppose I'm like Nicolas de Cues, "One faith but with different way to worshipp God"
(Yeah, yeah, I know, boudhist, hinduism and stuff, but I'm tired and I don't know the english equivalent for the thing universal in every religion)
And for the way of living your religion... Faith is a personnal thing. If you think that drawing comics mades you feel more spiritual that going to the office, then, draw comics. Each one should find his/her own way to worshipp God.
Sorry for the thoughts on yao..religion and the not so constructive post but well, it's 4am for me and I don't know if my words mades much sense for now...^^;
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 04:22 pm (UTC)I think that's more of a people in general thing for me; in this case I was thinking more of the idea and practice of atheism, separate from any preaching of it or attempts to gain more followers. It takes a different kind of strength, and I admire that people can find it.
Mm, that's kind of what I was going for? Like Esperanto isn't designed to replace all other languages; that would wipe out half of culture. It's designed to be more of a babelfish of sorts, so that people from all around the world can have a common communication tool even if they don't speak the same first language. Bah, I'm not explaining this very well -_-a
Hey, it's not like I can complain about people sharing ideas ;)
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 02:37 am (UTC)This is absolutely not intended as a persuasion, witness, proselytization or anything else of that nature. I only post this because I recently came across it and it presents another view.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5015557
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 04:28 pm (UTC)That's actually more or less why I admire atheists and think they can be pretty damn cool people: because they have the strength of character to believe that we can take care of our own problems. I think it's real hoopy how much respect they have for the abilities of the human race in general, really. They imply that we don't need an all-powerful baby-sitter to pick up after us or send us to the time-out corner; we can be responsible for ourselves.
And yeah. [/two cents]
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Date: 2007-09-25 02:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 04:35 pm (UTC)...Oh yeah, and if I could bug you for pictures of Star Trek figures, that would be a happy-making thing ♥
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Date: 2007-09-25 10:51 pm (UTC)Left handness is not a problem in my book. Its not like my dad and little
botherbrother are left handed or anything... ^_~Ooops. I forgot about them. Will get on it tonight. ...How many pics do you want? And do you want closeups and pics with all the accessories? Not that I'm a dork about it or anything.
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Date: 2007-09-27 12:12 am (UTC)Uh. Probably the most I'll need is five, but I'd take as many as eleven. Closeups with accessories = A-OK ♥
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Date: 2007-09-27 01:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 01:18 am (UTC)paper-paddingpictures!no subject
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Date: 2007-09-27 03:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 03:30 am (UTC)...that would be awesome. (I did a dorky one-panel comic for Easter once. It. It's still one of my favorites. I should go back and re-draw it sometime, now that I can... draw better.)
And your issues with your church right now sound totally understandable to me. Faith is such a personal thing -- even within one particular religion, there's that issue of finding the right "fit," both with the specific ways that one practices (e.g. preferring to sit by oneself or not) and with the community element.
And... yeah. It's late, I really don't have much to say right now. |D But I've always been interested in religious issues, so I enjoy reading what other people have to say about faith and religion.
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Date: 2007-09-25 04:41 pm (UTC)So true! And I liked the community element once upon a time, but it just hasn't felt as real recently.
It's interesting to be on the talking side for once is what I'll say.
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Date: 2007-09-25 04:15 am (UTC)What I did take away from my 18 years of being immersed in a Catholic environment was the importance of faith. You don't have to have faith in any particular god--in fact, I think it's that much more important to be able to have faith in other people (this is probably why Gurren Lagann's "Believe in me who believes in you" strikes a big chord with me). I see a lot of "religious" people around who are fervently devout, but I don't see them having faith in anything, really, so I totally agree with you.
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Date: 2007-09-25 04:45 pm (UTC)through an episode of Mighty Max l-lol 8D;;;, but was kinda indirectly shot down by one of my religious ed teachers :/ I'm trying to pick up the pieces of it these days, though.So much, yes. The movie Dogma really got it right for me: it's not so much what you have faith in as that you have faith. And that religion should be more an idea than a practice and stuff. (I kinda have yet to get my hands on a copy of Gurren Lagann yet, so I'm still in the Kyoko Honda school of "Be a person who believes." ^^a)
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Date: 2007-09-25 07:41 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2007-09-27 12:13 am (UTC)Which is a sad, sad thing some days.no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 12:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-02 04:26 pm (UTC)