(no subject)

[soc_puppet]

synecdochic has some important comments on the lead organizer of endotwracism and the campaign's goals.

At this point in time, I'm planning to continue to follow the campaign, but will be keeping my senses tuned for any harassment problems the lead organizer is currently causing, and for possible alternatives. It's no exaggeration to say that End OTW Racism has lead to some very important revelations, with potential for future change, but the entire mess with OTW/AO3 that the campaign has helped reveal has also left me wary of what can happen when bad actors are in charge of important organizations. I hope that is not the case with End OTW Racism, that the organizer has left her bad habits in the past, but I need to be aware of the possibility, especially with my inclination to trust too easily.

Edit: For clarification for myself as much as anyone else: I know that "I approve of what you're doing, but not the way you're doing it" is a common silencing tactic. End OTW Racism is not perfect, because nothing is, but they're a damn sight better than three years of near-silence, so I'm sticking with the campaign for the time being. If I find out that there's some shady shit going down, I'll be looking into how salvageable the campaign is (whether it can cut out bad actors and move forward or if it's in too deep, etc); otherwise, I'll stick with them unless a better option presents itself. And better options are pretty thin on the ground at the moment.

Comments

[makamu]

I feel similarly to you, especially because I've heard that Stitch used to harass other Black people for not agreeing with them on content they deemed racist (such as T'Challa/Killmonger fic in Black Panther fandom).

[soc_puppet]

Yeah, it's a sticky situation at best. I've just had it pointed out to me that I don't have any specific evidence that Stitch is actually an organizer, so I'll be looking into that next, but I'm still wary over how much the campaign is relying on their work, whether they're one of the people in charge or not. I will be very happy if it turns out I'm worrying over nothing.

[makamu]

Yeah, it's a sticky situation at best. I've just had it pointed out to me that I don't have any specific evidence that Stitch is actually an organizer, so I'll be looking into that next, but I'm still wary over how much the campaign is relying on their work, whether they're one of the people in charge or not. I will be very happy if it turns out I'm worrying over nothing.

For me, my wariness of the campaign is entirely built on their relying so heavily on Stitch's work - and because I really think that we should focus on metadata, comments and "fic" explicitly intended to harass particular people. Because everything else... can turn into a slippery slope really fast. And it potentially ignores that unlearning racisms in a racist world is a process.

[soc_puppet]

A very good point. I remember putting together the Misogynist Slash Fan Bingo Cards over ten years ago, and while things have gotten better, I'm pretty sure we can still get some use out of them. Fandom is dominated by people who have experienced misogyny, and a lot of us still have trouble recognizing it. With the majority of English-speaking fandom being white, and not having a lot of experience even thinking about race, getting us to recognize racism in our own work is an uphill battle at best.

I like that End OTW Racism has specified that they're trying to focus on deliberate racism, rather than accidental racism, but that's something that would be very difficult to measure. I can think of a particularly egregious example that I clicked out of ASAP that I have no way of telling if the author knew they were being horrifyingly racist or not. Or how many of the readers recognized it, for that matter.

[makamu]

A very good point. I remember putting together the Misogynist Slash Fan Bingo Cards over ten years ago, and while things have gotten better, I'm pretty sure we can still get some use out of them. Fandom is dominated by people who have experienced misogyny, and a lot of us still have trouble recognizing it

As someone who had to unlearn the slash-related misogyny I picked up as a teenager in fandom (it was mild, but there), yes, it takes time to unlearn and learn to spot the trends and patterns. With racisms, it is much worse, due to fandom being overwhelmingly (US American) white.

I like that End OTW Racism has specified that they're trying to focus on deliberate racism, rather than accidental racism, but that's something that would be very difficult to measure. I can think of a particularly egregious example that I clicked out of ASAP that I have no way of telling if the author knew they were being horrifyingly racist or not. Or how many of the readers recognized it, for that matter.

Hmm agreed. Let's say, the accounts of stitch having other fans of colour harassed are making me feel cautious at the very least.

[satsuma]

quick point of clarification—i have literally been in the woods with cell service for two weeks, has anything happened in that time frame that indicates Stitch was one of the organizers of #EndOTWRacism? Last I heard the campaign linked to them a few times, which ffa was taking as evidence they were involved but there wasnt any actual evidence of involvement afaik (seeing as i linked to a wide variety of people in my own posts and am quite demonstrably not those people, it does feel like a bit of a reach)

[soc_puppet]

That is an excellent question! It seems I have some more concrete research to do (and also that my Critical Flaw of Trusting Too Easily has reared its ugly head exactly as I was talking about it 😅)

All that said, even if it turns out Stitch isn't involved at all, I'm still not sure I should entirely trust a campaign that relies so heavily on the work of someone known for racist harassment; if it turns out I'm worried over nothing, though, I will be sincerely delighted.

[indarkdirected]

I’m feeling conflicted about this too, but I haven’t seen synecdochic, anyone currently/ formerly of PAC, or any OTW reps refute any of the examples in the call to action, Stitch’s or otherwise. When I take the call to action in good faith along with all the info shared by volunteers in the last few days, all the issues raised still stand.

I don’t understand why their call to action linked so heavily to Stitch’s work either (especially when so many of the posts contain broken links/are no longer easily verifiable by someone who wants to check receipts), but I’d rather give EndOTWRacism the benefit of the doubt when I have yet to see any negative behavior on their part.

What I’m most curious about is whether synecdochic has specific suggestions to improve EOTWR’s tactics, and whether EOTWR would be willing to take advice from them and/or someone like chestnut_pod who has union/organizing experience. I’m no expert, but it seems that if they worked in tandem with an experienced developer, an organizer, and current volunteers, they could have more of an impact on the internal facing issues that the campaign is targeting. They aren’t obligated to, of course, but it would be a good pr move in contrast w/ OTW refusing synecdochic’s help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[soc_puppet]

This is a good comment! It sums up pretty well how I feel about the situation, and also has a possible solution (work with someone who has organizing experience), which isn't something I gave any time to considering 😅

Honestly, from what I've gathered between chestnut_pod's big post and via synonymous, just letting PAC do their jobs would be a big step forward in combating racist harassment, among other things.

[satsuma]

Let me know if you turn anything up! I have been trying my best to catch up on things but I’m sure I’ll miss some bits

As for linking, I’ll admit I struggle to see how one could talk about the controversy in 2020 (which lead to the OTW making promises to improve which it did not fulfill, and therefore must be talked about) without linking to/talking about Stitch—at minimum you need a waybacked version of the Ao3 news post where they cited Stitch to brag about fandom’s antiracist activism, Stitch’s response pointing out the org had never taken any of their advice re:reducing racism on the archive, and the open letter they helped write addressing the OTW which finally pushed them to take action.

Historically, I’ve seen a number of anti-racist organizers accused of harassment &/or racism, to the extent where my first assumption is generally “their real crime was making a white person uncomfortable” whenever I hear about one. I wouldn’t be surprised if the #EndOTWRacism organizers had faced similar unsubstantiated claims—they state in their faq that they are acting anonymously because of the history of harassment towards anti-racist fans which certainly could have included such types of claims. I mention this because Synecdochic’s post contains no concrete evidence, merely reports of private communications, and while I have quite a bit of respect for their opinion, I can easily imagine someone less familiar with them dismissing the whole thing as yet another round of those sorts of unfounded accusations. Even if Stitch does turn out to be the worst sort of person, I’m unsure whether it would be appropriate to blame the campaign merely for linking to them (if I turn up anything in my research I’ll probably resurrect my ancient tumblr to pass along to them though, as I’m sure they’d want to know)

[soc_puppet]

It might take me a few days; I'm working Sunday and Monday, and am distracted with Pokémon as well 😅 I'll see what I can do, though!

That said, this isn't the first time I've seen someone talk about Stitch having harassed other fans of color over not doing anti-racism right; it came up in the comments of chestnut_pod's big post on the subject, from a different user. I should be able to dig that up more easily, at least. Edit: Found the thread! /Edit

I am still on board with End OTW Racism, I'm just trying to be cautious about it.

[krait]

Stitch very much has a confirmed and repeated record of harassment, including toward other Black fans, and has openly called for harassment of fanfic writers deemed racist:

Currently, the only guaranteed way to ensure the removal of racist fanworks on the AO3 is to make having the story up no longer worth it for the author. As in, by making their online lives hell. 🤷🏾‍♀️ (from this Tweet.)

They've been dismissive and insulting toward Black fans who like ships Stitch dislikes, calling them "Pick-Me POC" and, when told that their word choice was insulting and racist, doubling down by calling their opponents "Bootlickers of Color."


This doesn't mean that the EOR protest is invalid, or that Stitch hasn't raised some salient points - or that the initial protest has uncovered some other, very important and appalling, facets of OTW! But I do think that it's reasonable and expected that many people are leery of a protest that has centred the writing and opinions of a fan with such a virulent history that runs counter to the protest's supposed goals.

I know that I personally have trouble believing the stated aims of a protest that claims to oppose censorship and harassment when, instead of pointing to individual cases (such as specific troll fics or individuals who were harassed via fic comments) or group action (e.g. the OTW's treatment of Asian volunteers), they repeatedly choose to spotlight someone who's advocated for harassment and used what someone ships as a basis for accusations of racism. That dilutes the message in a multitude of ways. Why not put forward the voices of people directly experiencing racist treatment from OTW, instead of someone who has harassed fans of colour and never apologised?

[soc_puppet]

Thank you for pulling receipts!

And yeah. I'm fully willing to believe that the links were chosen based on what was easy for the organizers to find rather than any deliberate malice, but what follows that for me is having to think about why these particular links were easy for them to find compared to other examples.