Yet More Thoughts on Kittens and Spitefic

[soc_puppet]

First, a quick check-in on yesterday's post: I'm planning on a rule where all "prompt" posts need to be under a cut, A) Because that makes it easier for me, and B) Because it can still be pretty unfun to unexpectedly come across an "I hate [your favorite character]!" post, even if you know that it's written with Opposite Day rules and its primary purpose is to summon cat macros and more content celebrating the aforementioned character. Fewer bad surprises for everyone!

Next up, we come to a problem that hadn't even occurred to me before yesterday: That is, what to do about any Harry Potter related prompts.

I think I would feel bad for forbidding them entirely? Like, I would prefer Kittens and Spitefic to be on the more permissive end of the spectrum in general. But I'm also aware of Rowling's stance that the existence and creation of fan media about that property is actually support for her ideals. Which... is definitely a hell of a stance to take.

I already know that one of the rules I want is for people to list the fandom(s), if any, that their posts apply to in the subject line, and between that and the mandatory cut, that would enable people to avoid any HP content with relative ease. But in recognition of Rowling's whole "If I can see people being fans of my books, I will attempt to politically capitalize on their existence to further my agenda!" bullshit, I'm also leaning towards asking that all HP related posts be community locked. Anyone who generates content for them can post that content wherever else their heart desires, but if people want to see or interact with it on the comm itself, they need to have a Dreamwidth account and join. Which I feel is a pretty reasonable compromise between forbidding HP posts entirely, and allowing Rowling and her ilk to even passively believe that I or anyone else their supports their ideals?

But this is just the thought process of one person, and I am open to more thoughts on this! That's why I'm posting about it in the first place! Is the above compromise enough, or should I forbid any HP stuff on Kittens and Spitefic? Is there another option I'm not thinking of, like requiring any HP related posts to have an ad for Trans Lifeline or something at the end? Ack!


Other than that, I would have to say that my main headache is back to yesterday's post, and how the hell to deal with more sensitive content. I think the comm would be in the clear for what content Dreamwidth allows, since all of the fake rants and responses are going to be posted in a space specifically designated for them, but it's still good to have that link on-hand so I can refer to the breakdown as needed.

I might get the comm set up in the next couple of days; just to have a place to do preliminary rules writing and test posting, set up some tags, that sort of thing, but not open it for its official purpose until more details are hammered out. Maybe host some of these rules/content discussions over there or something? Hmm.

Edit: Oh heck yeah, I think I figured out (at least some of?) the content rules!

If your goal is to get content about your favorite character handily outsmarting or otherwise beating the absolute tar out of bigots, be sure to focus your post on how it would be inappropriate or inaccurate for the character to be doing that, rather than the physical or moral prowess of the bigots. For example: "Character A would never try to punch a Nazi, they know that they'd get in too much trouble for fighting, and besides their weak noodle arms wouldn't be able to harm a fly, let alone anything bigger." Or: "Character B would never debate with TERFs, they hate getting into arguments! They're also terrible at it. They can't hold onto a train of thought to save their life, so arguing with TERFs is right out, let alone winning an argument. They'd end up making a fool of themself, rather than making a fool of the TERF."

More fine tuning may be required.

Up next: How to word posts whose goal is to get more religious representation, particularly for non-Christian religions! Pretty sure that most actual members of non-Christian religions have a decent idea how to make these posts without accidentally demonizing their own religion or creating something that gets a little too close to Christian supremacy, but people who aren't part of non-Christian religions might also want to read non-Christian religious representation, and they might not be aware of pitfalls there. (Related note, positive Messianic representation is going to be on the no-no list.)

Comments

[conuly]

But I'm also aware of Rowling's stance that the existence and creation of fan media about that property is actually support for her ideals.

Wait, what? Okay, well, that's just one more thing she's full of shit about, because wtf. She's just straight-up telling herself lies now.

I'm also leaning towards asking that all HP related posts be community locked.

DW is slow enough and small enough nowadays that this might work but in my experience people tend not to follow niche rules like this because they don't bother to read the rules in the first place.

[bluedreaming]

being angry about JKR as an HP fanworks creator

I'm also aware of Rowling's stance that the existence and creation of fan media about that property is actually support for her ideals. As someone who’s reasonably active in HP fanworks creation but not super “online” (at least in public spaces) and so (I presume?) didn’t know about this take (is this new? I try to ignore the existence of JKR entirely), this stance really makes me angry. (Cue spite fic…) Anyway, this isn’t the place to go on about this. Sigh.

I don’t know know if this is sufficient, but a feature that many people overlook is turning off search indexing. It’s possible to have a journal or comm searchable from within DW, but to be suppressed from search engine indexing. This might be a good idea anyway because of the premise of the comm and posts.

[soc_puppet]

Her stance is basically, "If you're a fan of Harry Potter, you support my beliefs," IIRC, and extends to public expression of any fondness for the series. I don't seem to have reblogged any of the direct quotes, but I'm pretty sure it's a big part of why a lot of Tumblr has decided that posting about Harry Potter (except to criticize it) is basically giving JKR a platform or something? It's complicated,. I didn't really post a whole lot of Harry Potter stuff even before JKR finally stopped pretending she isn't a TERF, though, so not posting HP stuff wasn't a particular hardship for me either way.


Hmm, that's good information about people interacting with community rules. I'm pretty sure I was leaning towards violations of the "Lock all HP posts" rule getting basically a slap on the wrist unless they go super overboard about it anyway. (Like, I make sure the post is locked and remind/alert them of the rule, then as long as they're polite about it and don't unlock the post, and otherwise make a good faith effort to remember to lock any future HP posts, we're cool.)

[soc_puppet]

Oh cool, I didn't know that we could put text cuts in comments now! That's awesome!

Anyway yeah, that's my most recent understanding.


That is a really good idea, especially re: the premise of the comm, as you point out. I'll definitely do that. Locked posts shouldn't show up on searches anyway, but we don't want people searching for their favorite character, finding a post that "bashes" them up, down, and sideways, and completely misunderstanding from lack of context. That'd suck. Or imagine someone finding a "character bashing" post on the comm and then commenting to agree with it!

[conuly]

Her stance is basically, "If you're a fan of Harry Potter, you support my beliefs," IIRC, and extends to public expression of any fondness for the series.

Well, that's certainly an opinion all right! Not one that makes any sense, but honestly, none of her opinions make sense and I don't care about them anyway.

I do know that there are tons of reasons why some people do not want to do HP fandom because of JKR's beliefs, I just think she's gonna think what she wants whether or not there's any evidence to back it up, same as she does about her terfy stuff. If everybody collectively just stopped with HP 100% she'd just invent some new reason why this still proves people really support her.

Which is a tangent that has nothing to do with your new comm idea. I'm just still stuck in "Wait, what? How can she possibly justify that even to herself!?" mode.

[soc_puppet]

I know, right? It's such a laughably ridiculous take, I can't even.

I'm pretty sure a bunch of people are also not interacting with HP stuff with the hope/goal that it will fade into obscurity (and therefore everyone can stop paying attention to JKR) rather than agreeing with her ridiculous "If you like my books, you agree with my politics" stance.

Personally, I'm pretty sure the series will continue to leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth until JKR herself fades into obscurity, though at this point I'm also pretty sure that HP is going to stick around at least as long as Narnia and The Wizard of Oz. JKR's other books, not so much, thank Maude.

[conuly]

Oh, yeah, no, for better or for worse those are modern classics of children's literature and not only will we never be free of them but they're going to continue to influence new works for generations. We're still getting fresh takes on Narnia, ffs.

On the other hand, JKR is a lot more derivative in her approach to HP than Lewis was when he wrote Narnia, so at least it's not going to always be obvious.

[mistressofmuses]

I definitely fall on the "don't ban fandoms entirely, even if the creators suck" side. JKR is a garbage person and I WISH she was left with no cultural footprint. But even in her case, I feel like saying only HP fandom is uniquely not allowed as part of the community comes across more as a statement against members of that fandom than about her. (And it seems like it opens it up for people to try and get their pet least-favorite fandoms banned from inclusion, due to someone involved being a crappy person or due to canon content they've decided is "irredeemable".)

I DO however think that requiring it be locked to the comm is a perfectly reasonable compromise! That, plus having the fandom clearly stated upfront, and with all prompts behind a cut, makes it easy to avoid for people who do not want to see it.

[soc_puppet]

That is an excellent point about people trying to get other fandoms banned; and yeah, JKR's doing enough to punish her (sensible, non-bigoted) fans, I don't feel much need to add onto that. I do feel like JKR/HP is in a somewhat unique position, given exactly how popular Harry Potter was back in the day and how much money and clout she ended up with as a result, and how she keeps on trying to get more and making even more of an ass of herself in the process, but that's probably splitting hairs.

[mistressofmuses]

I think JKR/HP is definitely at an extreme end because of how ubiquitous the fandom was and still is. But I don't think that's a reason to penalize the fandom. There are plenty of non-bigoted fans, including ones for whom their participation in the fandom is a big middle finger because they ARE trans. And if there are any people who feel the need to try and bring any transphobic garbage into the comm, I feel like THAT can be addressed and smacked down without penalizing the whole fandom just because JKR sucks.
Saying one fandom gets treated differently just based on popularity seems a bit too arbitrary for my taste, even if I DO realize that JKR's shittiness has a bigger impact than some smaller creator's shittiness. But then it may get into hair-splitting territory, with how much shittiness is too much shittiness vs. what level of shittiness is acceptable; if all shittiness is unacceptably bad, then to what extent should creators be scrutinized before their fandom is allowed to participate... Not that I want to borrow trouble, but I've seen WAY too much fandom wank, lol.

[bluedreaming]

Very late reply, but yes, I agree! The community is really understood best in context. You can even select a link to a rules post for people to see when joining a comm.

Also, yes, details tag in comments is new! You’ve probably seen some posts about it floating around, but yes it could be useful for people posting fills etc.